Lisa Glover

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Hey everyone, meet Lisa. She’s a exceptionally selfless woman. When she visits Roots it’s with residents of David’s House or friends from Capernaum YoungLife. She does amazing work and always brings a party to the shop. We sat down and asked her a few questions.

Sum yourself up in two sentences

My name is Lisa. I am striving to be an advocate for all people.

What is your favorite memory?

Jay and I invited a bunch of our Capernaum friends to our wedding. At the reception, during the father daughter dance, Kendal, one of our Capernaum friends, could not help but join in. She ran out on the dance floor and joined my dad and I in our dance. It’s definitely one of my favorite memories.

If you were a drink at Roots, what would you be and why?

I think I’d probably be either hot chocolate or mocha because they’re chocolately and cozy.

What is something you have always wanted to try but have been too afraid to?

In YoungLife, I always wanted to be on programs; onstage in skits and talent shows. However, I was recently the host with Liza Fongers at the Capernaum’s Got Talent Show. I’ve always enjoyed hosting so I think to host a really big event would be great. I’ve also wanted to try kickboxing for a long time and my sister and I are finally doing it!

What is the biggest risk you’ve ever taken?

Probably getting married! That’s a big decision, it’s the biggest decision I’ve made thus far in my life.

What was your most embarrassing moment?

I worked at SpringHill for one summer. It was the first week of being at camp and you’re meeting everyone for the first time. There is no laundry at camp so you have to go to town and do your laundry at the laundromat. There was a big group of us in town hanging out at the laundromat doing our laundry. I was switching my clothes over from the washer to the dryer when this guy came walking up spraying down the machines and washing them. He walked up to the machine I had just used and started to clean it. He pauses, leans in to look, and then pulls out a pair of underwear. It’s summer camp so of course I have a crush on every boy I’m around that day. The guy walks over to our group and asks if the underwear belongs to anyone. My face is bright red! It’s obvious they are mine and that it’s underwear but I chose to respond by saying loudly, “Oh! Yes, that is my sock. Thank you!” And no one ever said anything about it. Yup, that was embarrassing.

What is your profession?

I am a program coordinator at David’s House Ministry. I plan activities and outings for residents who live there. I started working at David’s House right out of high school. In college I studied therapeutic recreation and became more passionate about improving the quality of life with recreation and those types of activities. All the while I worked at David’s House and kept thinking of ways I could implement what I was learning. A  position eventually opened and I got the job as program coordinator. I’ve worked there for six and half years. I love the people there and have a type of family with them.

Click Here for more info about David’s House Ministries.
What is your best childhood memory?

Probably any time that I was at Camp Roger. I went to camp for nine years.

What is your strongest personal quality?

Either how emotional I am or how loyal I am. People have often told me I am loyal to a fault. Almost every personality test I’ve taken always puts me on the far side of emotion in the emotion vs. logic. I think that can be a good thing, but also have its challenges. But I like that about myself.

What is your favorite thing about Roots?

I planned a Grand Rapids coffee tour for David’s House and every Friday we would visit a different coffee shop. We visited about four different shops before we came to Roots. I’m not completely sure I can put words to what we experienced. Most of the tables here are easy to use with a wheelchair, it’s much easier to move around, everyone who works here is wonderful, and patient, and helpful. There is a level of understanding here for us that there isn’t everywhere else. Sometimes the behavior of some of our residents can seem embarrassing, like when Matt yells or Jim is up at the counter trying to get another cup of coffee with no money. It shouldn’t be embarrassing though and people should be willing to help out. Here at Roots you do a really good job of that. All other David’s House staff have said the same thing. We actually have not gone to another coffee shop in almost a year. We just keep coming back to Roots, we love it here. It’s a very special place.

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Blake Lopez

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Everyone – meet Blake. He is a an outstanding young man who always makes people feel welcomed. Whenever Blake visits Roots he checks in with our staff to see how they are doing, which is a wonderful gift for us. We sat down with him and asked him a few questions:

Sum yourself up in two sentences

I’m a fun old soul who enjoys getting to know people. I’m an oddball, dreamer, and an underdog who has been taught about the world through these lenses and couldn’t be happier with what these perspectives have given me.

What is one thing that has made you a stronger person?

I’ve always been pretty empathetic toward other people. I have come to the realization in my own life that people are coming at things from as different a perspective to something as I am. That has helped me become stronger in my relationships with other people and helped me to better understand those in my life that are very different from myself.  

What is the biggest compliment you can give yourself and why?

This might be weird but my smile. A lot of people compliment my smile and I don’t always think of myself as someone who smiles a lot.

If you could identify with one fictional character who would it be and why?

I would have to go to Spiderman. He doesn’t have the best powers but he just wants to do good with what he’s given. That’s where I’m at in life. I don’t have all the best resources but I want to help the people around me the best I can.

What is something that makes you smile?

Really terrible dad jokes. I go back and forth with my friend all day with really bad dad jokes. It’s fun to do when you bounce the jokes off others.

If you were at drink at Roots what would you be and why?

An Americano, because it reminds me of my California roots and the word is a spanglish mix. It’s the first special coffee I learned to order.

If you could witness any event of the past, present, or future, what would it be?

Future – I want to see what happens to the earth when it dies. Maybe, what causes humanity to stop being. I think that would put a lot in perspective for me.

What was your most embarrassing moment?

Someone asked me this recently and I couldn’t think of anything good. All I could come up with was one time for youth group, I was trying to make friends at a lock-in at an ice rink. We were playing broomball which you play in your shoes rather than skates. I hadn’t been on ice in a long time but I was pretty confident in my abilities. I slid out on the ice to show off my skills and I fell flat on my back and had the wind knocked out of me. I was laying on the ice groaning for about 5 minutes and everyone thought I’m overreacting. It was pretty darn embarrassing and I tried to avoid any potentially embarrassing moments after that. That must be why it’s hard to think of one.

What is your favorite genre music. Who are you listening to?

I guess I would go with the broadest genre: alternative, maybe some soul; a rock kind of soul. I love making playlists for almost any reason and appreciate pretty much all genres. Right now I’m listening to Paul Simon, the earliest Fleetwood Mac and Durand Jones & the Indications.

*Look him up on Spotify, people say he’s got the best playlists around.

What drives you to do what you do? What motivates you?

Two things that are somewhat related. I love when people learn things about each other or learn things about the world, relationally. I think, in general, I love creating a space for people to meet with each other or learn about new things and expand what they think about things, each other, and the world and how they relate to one another.

What is your favorite thing about Roots?

There’s an energy here. It feels like home whenever someone walks in here. It’s the people, the atmosphere, it’s everything.

Sarah Hill

Sarah Hill

Hey Everyone, meet Sarah. She’s such a stellar woman with so much love for everyone around her. She’s an expecting mother with inspiring dreams to help others. We sat down with her and asked a few question:

Describe yourself in two sentences

I love Rosie [her dog] and I’m cheesy. My husband is much nicer of a human than I am and makes me want to be a better human every day.

What is the biggest lesson learned/best advice you have from marriage?

It’s not about you. You have to shut up and listen, a lot, and realize that you’re not as great or important as you think you are.

What is one thing that has made you a stronger person?

Micah [her husband] and coffee.

Who or what inspires you?

A lot of women inspire me, when I see them doing things that I wish I could do. I seek inspiration from other people’s life stories.

What is your favorite thing about Grand Rapids?

I love the little-big-town feel. That you can feel like a city girl but also retreat to your favorite neighborhood spot.

What drives you to do what you do? What motivates you?

I think seeing need and seeing life in big picture mode makes me want to be a part of change. My own dreams motivate me and setting goals for myself drives me rather than following what other people say I should do. Life becomes foggy when I listen to other people tell me what to do, but I when I’m able to sit down and think about what I want and what goals I have then I am inspired to move forward and achieve them.

What trajectory are you hoping to push yourself onto? Where do you want to head?

Well, I’m already on a path to motherhood, so I think I’m preparing for that every day. Beyond that, I want to be in  the nonprofit world here in Grand Rapids. I’m not sure what that exactly looks like or how it will manifest itself but that’s where I see myself. I see myself sharing stories with others and providing information to others about the world around them.

If you could trade lives with one person for an entire day who would it be and why?

Rosie [her dog]. Hands down, Rosie. She just gets to hang out and she fits under the bed and she’s so cute and happy all the time.

What favorite foods put you in a great mood?

Avocados or popcorn. My two favorite foods but not together.

What’s your favorite thing about Roots?

The staff. The customer service is why I kept coming back– you’re recognized and remembered; you’re greeted happily when you come in the door.

Adnoris “Bo” Torres

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Hey Everyone, meet Bo. It is always a pleasure when he visits the shop. Bo is a change maker here on the westside of Grand Rapids. He has a wealth of knowledge to pass on to everyone he meets and no matter who you are he meets you with a smile and a willingness to engage. We sat down and asked him a few questions.

Describe yourself in two sentences

I am a passionate Latino leader. I am engaged in Latino male development.

What is one of your life’s biggest accomplishments?

Being a first generation latino man to graduate college would be my biggest accomplishment. My dad went to William and Mary, but he left school to serve in the Vietnam war. He never went back to finish his degree, but instead met my mom and started a family. My mom received a two year degree but not a bachelor’s degree. I went to Michigan State and on to Wayne State where I finished my degree and moved on to my Masters. It was a long but fruitful journey that gave me a lot of life experience that as a teacher I have been able  to pass on.

If you could go back to any age or time in your life, what would it be and why?

The summer after my senior year of high school, right before I went to MSU. Michigan State is big; it’s a monster and you can get lost. There’s so much opportunity for growth but there’s also pitfalls. The social aspect, the parties; there’s all kinds of stuff to get caught up in and you can lose your focus. I spent a good five years doing a lot of things that developed who I was; in undergrad I worked for the College of Agricultural Natural Resources and I worked for the office of minority student transitions, and so on. I was able to take advantage of many opportunities and gain a lot of knowledge, but I messed up in classes. My priorities were skewed because I was more focused on enjoying college life than my classes. If I was to go back I would tell myself, “Come on man, what’s your focus? You’ve got to get out of here in a few years. You can’t be racking up debt and so on.”  

Who or what inspires you?

My father, he’s been my greatest inspiration. He has cancer right now and it’s been a journey to watch him go through all the stages of life. He has been able to show me how to express emotion, what good work ethic is, just how to always be there. He has given me an example of how to be a good father for my children, if and when I have them. We have a good relationship but it hasn’t always been easy. It gives me a wealth of knowledge to pass on to the fathers that I work with now as well.

What is your profession and why did you choose it?

First things first, I’m an educator. Education has always been my passion because of the various mentors I’ve had in my life. My current position opened up a while ago when I was still living on the east side of the state. Strong Beginnings was looking for someone bilingual, someone culturally humble, who understood Latino-ness and I fit that. My position is the fatherhood coordinator with the initiative called the “Padres Fuertes”, the Strong Fathers Initiative. We walk alongside the fathers in the program to help them become more aware and more engaged in the lives of their children. We help to make sure they are taking that active role from conception to birth and through the first few years of life. Along with this comes social aspects of health – having a job, having an education, having a support network, having a place to live, having food to eat – all of those things combined help to make a great father and those are the things we focus on. We have a network of support that allows us to do all that. We also work in tandem with those who work with the mothers. This allows both parents to work as a team and in tandem as well.

Is there a documentary or book that really changed the way you thought about something?

Jihad vs McWorld by Benjamin Barber. This is actually a book and it’s pre 9/11. Barber talked about the clash of western culture and that of the middle east. The dynamic of western consumerism is contrary to traditional culture and society. Barber used the muslim world, middle eastern societies, northern African societies as examples to explain the conflict that was waiting to happen. Sure enough 2001 happens. He came out with another version of the book the speaks directly to the events of September 11. A lot of this can be avoided and conflicts can be resolved if we take the time to look at the other. This is why we have many of the issues and movements that we have going on nationally and here in Grand Rapids. If we take the time to understand the other and know that they may not be like us, they may not be western and that’s okay, then we can find some resolutions.

If you could travel anywhere, where would you go and why?

Puerto Rico, I’m headed there. It hard to see everything that’s going on and not be able to be there right now. When you have family there who needs your help. Puerto Rico isn’t the same place it was when I was growing up either. It’s starting to lose a bit of it’s culture as it becomes more western. But there’s no other place I want to be, home is home.

What is your strongest personal quality?

The ability to interact with people and connect with people. One of my mentors, an educator out of Detroit, came to my classroom two years back and one of the things she told me was that I connect people. I am able to approach people and interact with people well. A smile and humility will go a long way.

What is something that makes you smile?

Music. (That’s another reason why I love this place. [Roots] The music choice here is always great.) I remember my sister went on a trip to New York to visit family and she came back with this bootleg tape. It was the Wu Tang album, 36 Chambers and we still have it at home. The season and periods of your life are punctuated with music, the soundtrack of your life. It sounds corny but it’s true. It expands your mind and allows you to travel back in time, both for the good and the bad.

What is your favorite thing about Roots?

I was introduced to Roots by a co-worker and it has become a place of rest for me. A place where I can come to think, to talk, to get ideas and use ideas, and things like that. It’s places like this that have helped make this city feel more like home. This is where I brought my girlfriend on our first date. It’s a place I’m starting to make memories and it’s become a really important place. And of course my favorite drink: a large chai latte with two shots of espresso.

Eric “Oats” Olivero

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Hey Everyone, meet Eric. He is an extraordinary young man. He’s full of wisdom, energy, silliness, and love. To have a conversation with Eric is to be heard. If you ever get the chance to say hello make sure you do! We enjoy him every time he visits. We sat down with him and asked a few questions.

Sum yourself up in two sentences

I have been loved by God. Now I seek to respond to His love and to know it more fully.

If you could identify with one fictional character who would it be and why?

Tigger from Winnie the Pooh because he’s bouncy and fun. I’m constantly distracted and my attention is pulled in all different places. I like to think and speak erratically. I like to have fun too. I would say more seriously that I identify with Efim from a short story called “Two Old Men” by Leo Tolstoy. Efim goes on a journey with a friend and his friend doesn’t complete the journey because he ends up stopping along the way to help people. Efim doesn’t stop to help anyone so he completely the journey. When he gets to the destination he sees his friend there, at this big church, close to the very center where Efim cannot reach because of the crowd. In the end it expresses to us that Efim’s friend had more deeply achieved the purpose of the journey and so is closer to the center. He loved people along the way not simply soldiered on during the pilgrimage. I identify with Efim because sometimes I try too easily to achieve the goal and fail to notice the other various opportunities along the way.

What is one word you would use to describe yourself? Why?

Envisioned. I’m often not that organized. It’s often not that clear to me what I should be doing or how best to do it, but I do have a strong vision for the type of person I want to be and for what I think matters. Though I might flounder with filling the vision, I do have a clear and high intent for the vision and what it means to live a good life.

Who or what inspires you?

I really like simple beauty and I am very compelled by the different ways that people can respond to beauty. I think that the most beautiful thing in all of existence is the concept of together or togetherness. Doing things together, sharing things together, but above all else, just being together. Sometimes to accomplish a goal or possible to do nothing in particular other than to just be together. That’s one of the reasons I love Jesus. What drives the gospel and what drives Jesus to be what He is, is that He is togetherness in the trinity; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is also why He gave Himself up for us and rose from the dead, was to be together with us. I love to put that concept and that lifestyle into action in my daily life in as many means as I can. It’s beautiful.

What was one of your most defining moments in life?

Being asked to do this interview. It was when I realized I had arrived.

If you could trade lives with one person for an entire day who would it be and why?

Part of me wants to say Josh Garrels because I would love to be an awesome musician.

What drives you to do what you do? What motivates you?

I want to live a life of significance and I know that the only enduring significance is the glory of God through Jesus Christ. My fight for belonging with Him and my fight to help others realize their belonging in Him and have faith in him. I want to be together, really together – meaningfully, deeply, openly together with others with Christ. I do full time college ministry, so I want to help people who at this major juncture in life. I want to help them make decisions that help set them on a path of eternal significance. That’s what motivates my life. [UCO is the college ministry with which Eric works.]

What is your favorite thing about Roots?

Seeing people when I know when I come in, both behind the counter and the other customers.

Jerry Rodriguez

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Hey Everyone, meet Jerry. He has spent the last two weeks hanging out at Roots Brew Shop and has quickly become a friend to us. He was one of our four Artprize 9 artists. His work was interactive and inspiring. He had such an amazing story to tell and lesson for us to learn through his pieces. Thank you so much Jerry for joining us for Artprize this year! We sat down with Jerry and asked him a few questions.

Sum yourself up in two sentences

First and foremost I am a child of God, that’s the root of who I am. I am a child of God who expresses.

If there is advice you could give your younger self, what would it be?

*chuckles* You sayin’ I’m old!? My advice would be to embrace your limitations. Only when you do that are you free to move forward.

What is the biggest compliment you could give yourself and why?

I’m going to give you the best compliment I’ve received and how I’ve seen it manifest itself in my life. The best I’ve received is that everything I touched turned to gold. To receive those words and to believe them I’ve been able to see it pour out in my life.

What does joy mean to you? What is something that brings you joy?

Happiness to me is emotionally temporary, but joy to me is an eternal perspective. You can still mourn and have joy. You choose joy. Watching people walk into their purpose brings me joy. I’m a full time artist, but I believe my greater calling is to inspire people through my art to fulfill their purpose. That brings me joy, to see that happen.

What music are you listening to right now?

Kanye’s pandora station or my spanish remix playlist on spotify. More specifically Ibeyi; they are twins and the name Ibeyi means twins in their native language. They’re Cubans but are still identify with their African tribe. They produce english music with an African flare and cuban tones. They also speak with british accents. I’m not sure how they do all that, they’ve got a lot going on.

What are 3 things you cannot live without?

Plantains, which are NOT bananas. Dominicans love making every dish out of plantains.

Art. I don’t know if I could live in a world without art.

My close relationships which would include my family and my close mentors.

If you were a Root’s drink, what would you be?

If I wanted to be a people pleaser I would go with being an iced vanilla chai with almond milk and one shot of espresso. That’s my go-to drink. But what I really want to be is the mysterious drink of the month if there was one.

If you could trade places with one person for a whole day, who would it be and why?

I would want to switch places with someone who got to do something nobody else ever did. Whatever Armstrong went to the moon. That guy.

What trajectory are you hoping to push yourself onto? Where do you want to head?

I have a heart for people and a heart and passion for art. Those two have always been different worlds. I’ve been discovering, however, that God has made these two separate things one from the beginning. The first thing we learn about God is that He’s a creator, an artist. The next thing we learn is that we are made in His image, we are made to create as well. I’m on a path to help other people understand what it means to create whether that be through painting, or singing, or relationships or conversations; we are all co-creators in some way. I don’t want to just be a painter who paints outside the box but one who creates something that impacts people and inspires hope. I want to challenge people through art to look at who they are and who they were  created to be.

What is your favorite thing about Roots?

My favorite thing about Roots is the story about Roots. It’s almost a story of renewal. The shop is created from things that are repurposed; the floors, the furniture, the silverware, pretty much everything. I think it’s something people feel when they walk into the shop, this feeling of renewal, refresh. It’s a healthy environment that encourages people. The whole place tells a story.

Michael Fravel

Mike Fravel

Hey Everyone meet Michael. He’s an original here at Roots Brew Shop. He brings such joy, peace, and calm to this shop. It has been an amazing honor to get to know him over these past two years. Your life is better when you know him. If you see him around say hello. We sat down with him and asked a few questions.

Describe yourself in two sentences

I only take a few things seriously because I like to act stupid and enjoy life. But, those few things are people, Jesus, and making sure people feel loved and cared about within’ my presence.

If there was advice you could give your younger self, what would it be?

I would say when I was a super young kid, “You will eventually be much cooler than you ever thought Matt Lambert ever was.” That was my best friend growing up and I felt like I lived in his shadow. As a teenager, “You’ll make a lot of mistakes, but at the same time you’ll look back on your life and enjoy all of it; even the hard moments.” For my young 20’s self, “Don’t date that girl.” It’s hard because I have really looked back on my life and I don’t really have many regrets. I feel that I’ve lived my life really as I wanted to and so I guess the only advice I would have for myself is to continue believing that you are exactly who the Lord wants you to be.

If you could go back to any age or time in your life, what would it be and why?

My dad and I were close but there were a lot of things we didn’t connect on and deep things was one of them. There was a time after a really rough break up when I was about 21 or 22 and my dad tried to be vulnerable with me and connect with me and I blew him off. It was a time I think he was really trying to connect and could have been really good for us and our relationship and I shut it down. If I could go back I would go to that moment, even though it really sucked.

What is your favorite thing about Grand Rapids?

My favorite thing about Grand Rapids is that people get together over everything. If someone said it’s grass and Goodyear tire day, everyone would show up to the park with their favorite tire and blade of grass; there are families, and the Pride Center,  and non-profits, and this organization and that one. People just get together for EVERYTHING. Despite a lot of the systematic things that can be happening here, I love that there is a strong sense of community that isn’t like any other city. Everyone seems to want to do some form of good here and there’s a million different versions of what that looks like. The city is a partnership of bougee older people and millennials and it’s all a connected community.  

Why did you choose your profession?

I work for HQ, which is short for Headquarters. It’s a homeless and runaway youth center, but we do so much for than that. I wholeheartedly believe that God and that organization chose me, because LITERALLY I got a Facebook message from Andy Soper asking to use my apartment to shoot a promotional video for this new thing he was starting up. After shooting he mentioned that I should apply. I didn’t think much about it because I don’t have a social work degree or anything I just do ministry and cook. I didn’t end up applying, but later I got a text from another friend who was part of the organization telling me about an opening there that I should apply for and this time I did. I feel like it chose me to be honest and it allows me to walk out my calling on a professional level.

What was one of your most defining moments in life?

My father was a white male. He and his wife, my mother, adopted me when they were in their early 60’s. My dad was born in 1934 and he was the best damn dad. We clashed a lot about life and jobs. I was a kid who was in to Blink 182 and korn; I was into wearing black cloths and painting my nails. My dad was into working hard and fixing the car; he was a working class man. Because of that I was able to group up in this really nice neighborhood; nice white suburbia. He worked really hard for all that. A lot of our arguments came down to him trying to encourage me not to worry so much about my guitar and spending money on shows. Fast forwarding a bit, my father was diagnosed with cancer and spoiler alert – he didn’t make it, he passed away. When he was passing away, I was in Grand Rapids and my sisters and father were all in Louisiana. My sisters told me that he was going fast and that I could either come down for the funeral or they would help pay my way to get down there now. My thought was that I would rather see my dad alive. However, I was very afraid to go not because I was afraid of him dying but because I thought my father’s words to me would be “Why did you come out here? You should be working. You just got a new job.” That’s just my dad and I knew he would want me to be working, but I chose to go anyway. My dad hadn’t talked to anyone in four days and was essentially rude to everyone. I was told not to expect him to talk or anything. When we walked into his room it was quiet except for the noise of the machines that kept him alive. My sister said outloud, “Dad? Dad… ? Dad, Michael’s here to see you.” His eyes flew open and he looked around, spotted me, and lifted himself up and reached out to say “I love you.” I didn’t know what to say. In that moment everything we’d ever argued about fell away. After not talking to anyone for days he chose to talk to me, his adopted son of color. I went to his side and held his hand and told him, “Dad I want you to know I flew in to tell you goodbye. I know that you don’t care, but there are all these people in my life all over the country who are praying for you. Do you mind if I pray for you?” It was a defining moment. I knew in that moment that love was a real thing and that God was either very real or very fake. In that moment I realized that there should never be anything that keeps me from loving another person. If this man who loved me who was supposed to be culturally racist but wasn’t, how could I allow anything to keep me from loving another person. It taught me that love shouldn’t have an actual boundary. That was the best day I’ve ever had with my dad. It was the best day I’ve ever spent with another human.

If you could only keep five possessions, what would they be?

If I could make the relationship with my girlfriend tangible, I would give her a piece and I would take a piece.

My guitar

A birthday card from my friend Shawn Weldon

This is going to sound really lame but my Dragon Ball Z blanket

I would make every time I have ever laughed with someone tangible and give them some and keep some.  

What music are you listening to right now?

Vagabonds- I don’t know what to do now

American Football [their first album]

Neutral Milk Hotel- In Aeroplane over the sea

Brian Fallon – Pain Killers

The world is a beautiful place and I am no longer afraid to die

Nai Harvest- Hold Open My Head

My own bands – Valedictorian

Lexy Murdock

Nick and Nora’s infinite playlist

Liance- Bronze age of the 90’s

What is your favorite thing about Roots?

What I love about Roots is that it is literally open to all different types of people, all different types of belief systems, and it’s embedded in the community. I honestly believe people come here because they feel like they belong. Every time I walk in and walk up to the counter I know that staff genuinely give a damn and really care. I’ve watched the staff interact with other people and they are always engaged with customers; laughing with them and talking with them. Every customer is given the opportunity to have a conversation with staff and is honestly heard by them. You don’t get that anywhere else.